It seems that high school students and their parents need much more information as they make these life-shaping decisions. What is being done to address this information-gap?
You hit a key point Tom - better, more accessible information is needed by students and their parents. I will refer you to a post we wrote on this topic last Fall (November 8) entitled: "Solutions for the Skills Gap: More and Better Information". We mention some of the current efforts to provide more and better information on student outcomes, cost, and debt. And, we suggest a 4-point plan for addressing information gaps. The first point is asking state/federal governments to collect and report outcome data for every single college student to provide detail on completion, placement, earnings, etc. by program and by institution. You have your finger on a really important issue...thanks for the question.
Does anyone else find it disheartening to see education at the bottom of the rate-of-return chart? We should want people to study education, language, history and media! We need passionate, well-educated, professional teachers and journalists and historians. These can't just be viewed as a service.
I'd be curious to see the data of earning potential paired with major popularity. My hunch is that students aren't signing up for "worthless majors", but that they're interested in legitimately important professions that happen to be undervalued by the structure of our economy.
I'm not sure where this ties to university policy, but I do think it's an important aspect of this conversation that's often overlooked.
Thanks for the comment...the IRR of course reflects only the financial aspects of a college education - what a person earns relative to what their degree cost. (As we mention, there are other reasons to choose a career besides salary). And, many of the positions you name do not pay as well as other careers, hence the lower IRR. That said, elementary education, English, history, political science, and sociology were all among the top 15 majors in 2023. While many of these majors have been declining since 2008, they remain popular. As the Abel and Dietz pointed out, on average, students in these majors still have an acceptable IRR. But, students need to be especially sensitive to the cost of their degree given these careers are lower paying. Of course, averages are just that: averages. Any individual student may have a very different career outcome from one of these majors. I can't argue with your opening point: a question is how many of these majors do we need? We plan to address that question in a future post. Thanks again for your comment.
No question, everyone should be sensitive to degree costs. I hope I didn't suggest otherwise. I just wonder if the data really points to other issues we mistakenly interpret as poor career decisions.
It seems we often assign social merit based on the economy's shifting winds. For example, advertising moving from print to social media doesn't make building self-driving cars inherently more important than local journalism. This also ties into the pervasive idea that science and engineering are purely vocational, and the humanities are entirely academic or artistic—but neither is true.
However, that structural economic change *is* a problem! The solution appears to be to tell kids that they should give up on their dreams unless they have a significant other with a stable income. If that's the best we can collectively offer, then... what good is a business or economics degree? ;)
I'll keep an eye out for the future posts. Love the blog!
I should have added that Abel and Dietz make this point about education majors: "Returns are especially low for education majors, though it should be noted that annual wages for this group typically reflect teacher salaries for a nine-month school year."
Well, as an 'ag guy', I agree! While Abel and Dietz did not report on the IRR for agriculture in their most recent study, they did in 2014. (A link to the 2014 study is in our post.) The average IRR for a college graduate was 15% in 2012 according to Abel and Dietz, and for agriculture graduates that year, the IRR was 11%. My guess is the variation around the mean IRR for agriculture majors is larger than other categories given the very wide range of careers agriculture majors move into (ag engineers, food scientists, farmers, foresters, ag bankers, etc.) I would add that some recent work I am involved in suggests the number of job openings in food and agriculture does far outstrip the number of graduates from colleges with agriculture majors. Thanks for the question.
It seems that high school students and their parents need much more information as they make these life-shaping decisions. What is being done to address this information-gap?
You hit a key point Tom - better, more accessible information is needed by students and their parents. I will refer you to a post we wrote on this topic last Fall (November 8) entitled: "Solutions for the Skills Gap: More and Better Information". We mention some of the current efforts to provide more and better information on student outcomes, cost, and debt. And, we suggest a 4-point plan for addressing information gaps. The first point is asking state/federal governments to collect and report outcome data for every single college student to provide detail on completion, placement, earnings, etc. by program and by institution. You have your finger on a really important issue...thanks for the question.
Does anyone else find it disheartening to see education at the bottom of the rate-of-return chart? We should want people to study education, language, history and media! We need passionate, well-educated, professional teachers and journalists and historians. These can't just be viewed as a service.
I'd be curious to see the data of earning potential paired with major popularity. My hunch is that students aren't signing up for "worthless majors", but that they're interested in legitimately important professions that happen to be undervalued by the structure of our economy.
I'm not sure where this ties to university policy, but I do think it's an important aspect of this conversation that's often overlooked.
Thanks for the comment...the IRR of course reflects only the financial aspects of a college education - what a person earns relative to what their degree cost. (As we mention, there are other reasons to choose a career besides salary). And, many of the positions you name do not pay as well as other careers, hence the lower IRR. That said, elementary education, English, history, political science, and sociology were all among the top 15 majors in 2023. While many of these majors have been declining since 2008, they remain popular. As the Abel and Dietz pointed out, on average, students in these majors still have an acceptable IRR. But, students need to be especially sensitive to the cost of their degree given these careers are lower paying. Of course, averages are just that: averages. Any individual student may have a very different career outcome from one of these majors. I can't argue with your opening point: a question is how many of these majors do we need? We plan to address that question in a future post. Thanks again for your comment.
Hi Jay, thanks for the reply!
No question, everyone should be sensitive to degree costs. I hope I didn't suggest otherwise. I just wonder if the data really points to other issues we mistakenly interpret as poor career decisions.
It seems we often assign social merit based on the economy's shifting winds. For example, advertising moving from print to social media doesn't make building self-driving cars inherently more important than local journalism. This also ties into the pervasive idea that science and engineering are purely vocational, and the humanities are entirely academic or artistic—but neither is true.
However, that structural economic change *is* a problem! The solution appears to be to tell kids that they should give up on their dreams unless they have a significant other with a stable income. If that's the best we can collectively offer, then... what good is a business or economics degree? ;)
I'll keep an eye out for the future posts. Love the blog!
I should have added that Abel and Dietz make this point about education majors: "Returns are especially low for education majors, though it should be noted that annual wages for this group typically reflect teacher salaries for a nine-month school year."
I notice agriculture is not one of the industries listed. I’m sure it’s imbedded in other but it would be nice to purse it out.
Well, as an 'ag guy', I agree! While Abel and Dietz did not report on the IRR for agriculture in their most recent study, they did in 2014. (A link to the 2014 study is in our post.) The average IRR for a college graduate was 15% in 2012 according to Abel and Dietz, and for agriculture graduates that year, the IRR was 11%. My guess is the variation around the mean IRR for agriculture majors is larger than other categories given the very wide range of careers agriculture majors move into (ag engineers, food scientists, farmers, foresters, ag bankers, etc.) I would add that some recent work I am involved in suggests the number of job openings in food and agriculture does far outstrip the number of graduates from colleges with agriculture majors. Thanks for the question.